By rama, October 23, 2017
Source: https://www.ramascreen.com/interview-writerdirector-ruben-ostlund-talks-to-me-about-the-square/
In a conversation with Ruben Östlund, he talks about what he's trying to convey with The Square, which has some really deep themes; some funny moments in the film; and he also shared with me whether he Really like contemporary art. Below is my full interview with Ruben Östlund.
Rama's Screen: I find the film fascinating and entertaining. Your last film was The Tourist, what made you decide to set your latest comedic satire in the contemporary art world?
Ruben Östlund: The motivation behind this film was that I wanted to discuss society in general, how we think about responsibility and trust in our society, and how we think about the social contract. In Sweden, if you look at the "gated" community, it's a radical expression, as if to say that this is the boundary of our responsibility, and within the boundary is where our responsibility lies. So I started asking myself, how do we see our role as "fellow human beings"? My father told me that when he was six years old, his parents let him play on the streets of Stockholm; apparently, in the fifties, we saw other adults as if our children were in trouble, they were people who will help him. Today, we see other adults as threats to the safety of our children. It's like a social attitude has changed, even as Swedish society has become safer and crime has fallen, doubts have grown. So we created a symbolic place, placed in the context of the city, that reminds us of our role as fellow human beings: we can trust each other and we can take responsibility. This is the starting point for the entire project.
Rama's Screen: I love your signature humor in The Square, I find it so ridiculous that it takes so much time to understand this scene: Elisabeth Moss character tells Claes Bang ) role in the importance of their recent sexual experience.
Ruben Östlund: "I love awkward moments. Once the social context changes, that moment is kind of awkward and we don't know what to do with it. When a man and a woman have sex, they have to sign a contract, okay (laughs), Now we have some obligations here. I think, with the character of Elizabeth's character, it's interesting that she likes Christian, but she's afraid to say that, so she starts using the social contract and corners him.
Rama's Screen: I think it's also about the disconnect between the genders, which is very interesting. Another plot revolves around a video that went viral on Youtube. It seems that the film also looks at the obsession with social media and the need to be famous for 15 minutes. What is the film trying to say in that regard?
Ruben Östlund: I think I'm thinking about the media landscape. For example, we have a democracy and you are a politician and you want to get votes. To get votes, you have to have exposure. If you want exposure, if you articulate your humanistic beliefs, etc., it won't work very well. Why am I writing these things? If I were a journalist, I would want to write about conflict. There is a far-right party in Sweden, the Sweden Democrats, and they have a very radical message that, despite a lot of exposure, is dismissed by people. But that's okay, they still get votes even with bad reviews. Therefore, you can use the number of votes to estimate the number of articles, which are very similar. We see this in the US too. Even if we don't want to support certain politicians, their words just make sure they get a lot of exposure and then they get votes. In attention economics, attention is everything, but content is secondary. How the media reports on terrorist events, for example, focusing on terrorist groups, that's basically what the media does. The situation is scary: as long as you can sell ads to multiple companies, it doesn't matter what you focus on. This media picture is scary when it's all about attention and no longer about content . Because I think the media are being naive in their handling of these tragedies, they use them as entertainment.
Rama's Screen: Did you also intend to make fun of contemporary art with this film? Because I don't understand contemporary art, I'm on your side.
Ruben Östlund: When I travel and do research I go to a lot of museums and you find people are very disconnected from art. It was Warhol, there were a few things on the floor, people walked around without caring, and then they went to the restaurant. I think in contemporary art circles, it is important to collect valuable artworks, not to care about what concept the artworks express about the current era. I'm trying to point this out to the art world, what are you guys doing? ! (laugh)
Rama's Screen: The film is bilingual in English and Swedish, and you include (English-speaking) Elisabeth Moss and Dominic West in your cast. What's the decision behind this compared to making a film that's entirely Swedish or entirely English?
Ruben Östlund: I think the content and themes of the film are very appropriate in Sweden, thinking about how people abroad see Sweden (strong social network, healthcare system, belief in the state, strong social democracy). After The Tourist, I had many opportunities to make an English-language film, but I wanted to make this film. My next film will be an English film. I spent some time in London with Elisabeth Moss and Dominic West and they were great. So I faced a problem, I didn't want to have an English speaking actress, but Elisabeth was so good that I had to put her in the movie, as did Dominic West. "
Rama's Screen: Who are your influences as a filmmaker? Who is the filmmaker you admire or admire?
Ruben Östlund: When I went to film school, I was impressed by two filmmakers, one of them was Michael Haneke. I saw Ukiyo-e Paris and it really struck me. I still think that without him, the film industry would be less rich, it would be barren. He's not at all forgiving, and I'm glad he's active in the film world, otherwise it wouldn't be that interesting. Another one that impressed me was Harmony Karine's Gummo. He was 23 years old and challenged the way the film was made, which I thought was beautiful.
Rama's Screen: In America, we're constantly bombarded with prequels, sequels, remakes, and superhero blockbusters. As an outsider, as a Swedish filmmaker, what do you think about the Hollywood film industry, what do you think about film trends in the US? Do you think a story like The Square could find an audience here?
Ruben Östlund: Actually, The Square is more contemporary, because all we see now is video. The most powerful video I've seen in the last 15 years is on YouTube: "Cab Driver on the BBC" is a taxi driver, broadcast live by mistake, and reporters think he's an internet guru, but he pretends to be. Plus, there was a 9-year-old girl who was ski jumping for the first time, and she overcame her fears to do it. As professionals, none of our work is as good as a YouTube video. And for me, I wanted to create the same great scene. So this is the modern way to approach this industry. I think that's the storytelling industry. I get excited when I'm in the audience.
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