www5083: Director, congratulations, "Pan's Labyrinth" has been nominated for six Oscars including Best Foreign Language Film. What do you think is your chance of winning?
del Toro: Of course I want to win the award. I don’t have the final say on how big the opportunity is. I think the more important thing is that "Pan's Labyrinth" (hereinafter referred to as "Pan") can be known to more audiences through the Oscar stage. I hope more people like "Pan".
www5083: Your previous movies are full of black elements. This time the fairy tale story with a little girl as the protagonist is also the same as before. Why not make it more sunny?
del Toro: Because the film is set in World War II, and Spain was under Franco's dictatorship at that time, the black tone was combined with the reality of the time.
www5083: We have noticed that there is a category of movies, such as Roberto Bernini's "Life is Beautiful", which is also set in World War II, but it is filmed for all ages, with tears in laughter.
del Toro: If the movie theaters all show "Beautiful Life", wouldn't it be closed long ago? (Laughs) Actually, "Pan" also has a sunny part, and the fantasy world of the little girl Ofelia is at least positive.
Ofelia: I protest, that world has ugly toads and ferocious white cannibals.
Pan Shen: I also protest, can't I be more handsome? Half-human, half-sheep, nondescript!
del Toro: You two shut up! I am in charge of my movie. God Pan, you are much more beautiful than the average sheep, and much cooler than the average person, what else do you want? When dreams shine into reality, it means that reality shines into dreams. What kind of life you have experienced, your dream will be imprinted. If I dream up a harmonious and beautiful paradise on earth, is it credible? You need to understand how bad the political ecology and people's living environment were at that time.
www5083: Haha, del Toro, don't get too excited, everyone is just discussing it. Do you adopt a two-line parallel narrative technique that interweaves magic and reality, is it for some kind of reality mapping?
del Toro: That's for sure. I emphasized that dreams cannot exist in isolation from reality. Why is the fantasy world of a little girl full of evil and danger? If you move to a modern civilized society, it seems unimaginable, but it is in line with the reality of the time.
www5083: But there are comments that the two clues lack communication, and the magic and reality are not well integrated.
del Toro: First of all, you should not take this story as if we made it up. You try to imagine that it is just the fantasy world of the little girl Ofelia. How could a little girl who didn't even know what World War II and Franco was about, how could she incorporate so many elements of reality into her imagination? In fact, what we want to express is a kind of resistance and escape from reality. In this context, it is necessary to separate reality from fantasy.
www5083: The reality part of the movie focuses on the confrontation between fascists and the guerrillas. Some viewers feel that certain scenes are too bloody, saying that the movie is suspected of moving closer to the B-level film.
Vidal: I think the director is overly exaggerating the cruelty of fascism and tends to vilify fascism.
del Toro: You mentioned bloody, yes, we also considered the audience issue at the time, but in the end we decided to make an R-rated film. I think the violence in war cannot be erased or beautified, and war will always be more cruel than the scenes you see. Many people say that Spielberg's "Thunder to Save the Soldiers" is really cruel, but I dare say that "Thunder" only shows the cruelty of war. Vidal, the criticism of fascism is not too forceful. On the contrary, in the face of the immeasurable victims buried under the fascist knife, any criticism is weak. Also, please do not use "fascism" to insult the word "ugly".
Vidal: I mean, either side of the war is cruel, and your balance is tilted too much.
del Toro: You are right, so in the end the guerrilla bullet passed through your face. (Laughs) Also, don't you talk about balances with me. When you raise butcher knives to innocent civilians, do you have a TMD balance in your mind?
www5083: In the ending, Ofelia was killed by her stepfather Vidal, and then her soul returned to the underground palace and became a princess. What kind of concept do you want to convey?
del Toro: Reality is dark, so Ofelia cannot escape death. In fact, she is just an ordinary member of the many victims; we leave a bright tail to the fantasy part, because we believe that no matter how difficult and harsh the situation, Mankind's pursuit of light and beauty is eternal and unchanging.
www5083: Dreams are bright, but reality is tragedy. Is this pursuit vain and impenetrable?
del Toro: It cannot be said that, in general, human civilization is becoming more and more advanced. However, under certain circumstances, such as Spain at that time, where civil wars continued and the economy was blocked by the outside world, it could be said that the people did not have a lot of livelihood. At that time, people wanted to pursue a happy and peaceful life, and the price they paid was much higher.
www5083: Thank you, director. Now I want to ask Ofelia, why can you be calm when you face all kinds of dangers? You are just a little girl.
Ofelia: I am young, but I have a lot of knowledge. Before surrendering to my stepfather with my mother, I saw a large number of victims on the street every day. The blood I have witnessed is definitely more than you. Besides, I believe in fairy tales. I know that there is a beautiful underground kingdom ahead. With this kind of belief, I am not afraid of anything.
Pan Shen: The most important thing is to have my guidance. I will do my best to protect my princess.
Ofelia: Thank you, Pan Shen, but I still feel sorry for you for telling me to sacrifice my brother.
Pan Shen: Ofelia, listen to me, the pursuit of light must bleed, even the blood of innocent people is no exception. However, it was just a test, and I am glad you passed it.
Vidal: I also have the credit. It wasn't me who shot Ofelia. Can she go to the underground kingdom? Ha ha
Everyone: SHUT UP!
www5083: Ofelia, many people are surprised, if you have such a firm belief, why do you steal grapes when you are doing the second task?
Ofelia: How do you say it? I'm just a little girl, anyway, I couldn't hold it back then.
del Toro: Some people say that this is purely to mobilize the white monster for some sensory stimulation. I admit that we have this idea. But further thinking, can the reality be as smooth as the ideal? Our revolution, our civilization process, and even the development of our film industry are full of thorns and pitfalls. There is no smooth path or shortcut.
Pan Shen: I agree with this point. Fortunately, we have an underground kingdom. Spain has been ruled by Franco for more than 30 years since World War II. I feel scared to think about it.
Vidal: Humph, it’s not that easy to overthrow our empire!
www5083: Vidal, stop dreaming, look through the calendar, it is now the beginning of 2, and all backward systems that are not in the interests of the people will be overthrown.
del Toro: Actually, we don't want to carry too much realistic meaning in making this movie. Everyone thinks it is an adult fairy tale with a magical color. Haha, sorry, Huang Po bought melons.
www5083: No, del Toro. Actually, I really admire you. The cost of 5 million can make such an effect. The art, visual effects and special effects are very good, and they are very suitable for the movie. How did you do it?
del Toro: I have to thank my team. They know how to achieve the most satisfactory results with the least amount of money. Hehe, I bought ads again.
www5083: No, del Toro, don't be humble, I think your 5 million movie is much more cost-effective than our country's billions of blockbusters.
del Toro: In developing countries, blockbuster movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars will certainly not become mainstream. Think about it, how many years do people spend hundreds of millions of dollars, and how many movies will be released a year? Instead of consuming huge movie resources to create an empty shell, it is better to tell the story honestly and show what you want to express. If the film cannot be based on its own quality as the main point of purchase, but to shift its energy away, it will hurt the film market when it is small, and it will damage the film industry when it is large.
www5083: Okay, that's the end of today's interview, thank you del Toro, thank you everyone!
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