This article is translated from an interview with Karax
Moderator: Devika Girish (Co-Associate Editor, Film Review/Film Comment)
Guest: Leos Carax
Devika Girish: Hello, everyone, I'm Devika Girish, co-associate editor of Film Comment, and I'm delighted to have Leos Carax, director of Annette, today. Thank you all for coming. Today we will start with a short Q&A and then invite questions from the live audience. This is actually the third time I've seen the end of this movie, but I'm still moved by the last sentence. Why does the film end with this sentence?
Leos Carax: That's why I never do Q&A. (laugh)
Devika Girish: No! Don't start like this
Leos Carax: Then we start Q&A, or Q&Q (Questions and Questions), or Q&D (Questions and Doubts), whatever. I feel like in the last scene Henry is alone in the cell, maybe with Ann's soul. He looks at the camera, and as a performer he always seeks this kind of comprehensive attention. After this shot, I somehow remembered Anthony Perkins' ecstatic monologue at the end of Hitchcock's Psycho. Maybe it's an improvisation?
Devika Girish: Now let's go back to the beginning, how did your collaboration with Sparks come about? Who contacted who first?
Leos Carax: I got to know the Spark Brothers when I was a kid. Most importantly, when I was a kid I knew what they used to be good at. I don't know their full musical career, but I've known them since I was 13 or 14 years old.
Devika Girish: So do you remember which of their albums you first listened to?
Leos Carax: That's for sure, I was supposed to be with a friend, we used to steal records together and skip class a lot. We saw a cover of two brothers tied to a boat, and I thought it was so funny, and I bought the album called Propaganda, and it's still one of my favorites to this day. . The second album I bought from the Spark Brothers was Indiscreet, which was released the following year. Seriously, I've listened to these two albums all my life! They brought me joy, so I used a song from "Indiscreet" 10 years ago in "Holy Car Deals." The Spark brothers watched the movie and they contacted me.
Devika Girish: So, when the Spark Brothers contacted you to make Annette, did they carry the same story as what we see today, or did you experience some adjustments in the process of working together?
Leos Carax: In the beginning, they came to me with another project, and I said no. But then they brought in 13 songs that they said were written for the movie, and also brought in the basic storyline, which means they had already started the project. At this time, he was a comedian, she was an opera singer, and a little baby and conductors these main things had already been done. Our cooperation starts here.
Devika Girish: What did you say about the project you didn't do with them? Is that the one they rejected you the first time they came?
Leos Carax: Well, I forgot the name of the project, but I think it was for Swiss radio, anyway, about Ingmar Bergman being stuck in Hollywood.
Devika Girish: Don't you want to do a musical about Bergman in Hollywood?
Leos Carax: No no no, first of all I don't want to make a historical film, and secondly, I don't want to make a movie with the main character named Bergman. (laugh)
Devika Girish: All right. But I really feel that "Annette" is really a good car for Adam Driver [because Driver drives the car, referring to Adam is very suitable for "Annette"]. Although Driver had good works before and after the shooting of "Annette", I think he contributed the best performance in this film. Director, you have used his deep and charismatic personality well. Wondering when you initially eliminated actors one by one, what made you keep him when you saw him and thought he was Henry?
Leos Carax: When the project started 8 years ago, I watched a series of American TV series "City Girl" starring Driver, and I felt that I needed him for my film shots. So we got to know each other back then, and he's been loyal to the project over the years.
Devika Girish: I'm also wondering, do you see some kind of consistency in Driver with Denis Lavant, your former queen? If I could call Rawang a muse, I found in both of them a physical quality that you can perfectly present.
Leos Carax: When you say that, I do think about the action presentation in the previous films. Before Driver, I used two male actors, one was Denis Lawan and the other was Guillaume Depardieu in Paula. I think the two of them act in very different ways, but when they don't understand, you can shoot them the way you shoot sculptures; in second gear they move, and you can shoot them as a dancer. At the same time, I think they have one thing in common that I like, they are called "monkeys" in English, but I like monkeys very much, so this is not a negative word, but emphasizes their original temperament.
Devika Girish: So it was. The film wasn't actually shot in Los Angeles, but the story does take place in Los Angeles. As your first American film, although it was co-produced, I would like to ask you, how was your experience making a film about America in such a way?
Leos Carax: Because the Spark brothers were born in Los Angeles, they still live in Los Angeles. They live in a bubble and see each other every day like the last day. I don't know how many years they've been like this, and then because of working with them, I started to really think about what life in Los Angeles is really like, although now I have to say, I didn't think much of it. So I started imagining the position of light in this huge urban space. I started imagining motorcycles and stuff again. Then the producers started to feel a lot of anxiety about the itinerary to shoot in Los Angeles, where filming is very expensive. So we thought, let's move from LA to New York, Toronto, Paris. So I was excited to do a movie in LA and not shoot in LA. So we started shooting in Belgium, Germany. In the end we only shot for about a week in LA, shooting the opening scene and some other scenes.
Devika Girish: So you've created a picture of life in Los Angeles in other cities?
Leos Carax: When you start making musicals and almost everything is sung, you are so free because that means anything is possible. You can have a puppet, you can create a Los Angeles in Belgium. So, it's a real liberation. In a way, it's exciting to enter a fake world that the movies especially like to build. By falsehood, I mean that part of the movie that starts filming.
Devika Girish: Let's talk about puppets. When and why did you decide to play baby Annette with puppets?
Leos Carax: What I don't like when I'm doing a movie is casting, so generally I avoid casting. I've found that, on average, it takes me a year to 10 years to conceive a movie for an actor or actress. But if I'm trying to conceive a film for a new actor, I often can't find the actor. I've been looking for little girls aged 1-5 who can sing really well, but haven't been able to find the right one. So I thought this project was over. Our solution was to make a little girl with no emotion in 3D images. It was really difficult, first of all because the set was empty and everything was done in post. It never occurred to me that I would shoot Baby Annette without being in contact with a living person, nor did the actors, you might even say, we entered the world of robots or electronics. It doesn't look really impressive because the only thing there is a puppet. In fact, I don't know anything about puppets, but I think there must be someone in the world who can create puppets with emotions. It's just that we have to take the time to find people who can make them.
Devika Girish: Then at the end of the movie, why did the puppet suddenly turn into a human? Even in real life, she is a very young actress. From the way she says her lines, to the dark adult emotions she expresses, we see her acting in a very precocious way. How did you discover this actor? How did you sometimes shoot with her in that scene?
Leos Carax: At the time, I had already found the man, the woman, and even the puppet in the original episode of Brothers Sparks. So I think the casting problem is finally solved. But then I had an idea that Annette, played by the puppet, would eventually come alive, and he would eventually become a real girl. Although I don't think I could find a 5 year old girl, we still had an audition in Europe and the US and we ended up with a little girl who just turned 5 and she was the least focused one out there. That is to say, she can't concentrate at all, but every time she takes a shot, she leaves a few seconds of flash. So in the end I decided she was the Annette I was going to shoot. Most of the time, it's me and Driver working with her, sometimes Driver has been coaching her, sometimes I'm playing Henry in front of her. In the end we succeeded in shooting.
Devika Girish: Will you explain to her what she's singing now? Like nobody loves you anymore or something?
Leos Carax: I wouldn't do that, whether it's an adult actor or a young actor...
Devika Girish: I know you said that you haven't seen many movies, but I feel that what is presented in "Annette" is not only closely related to film history, but also to comedy, opera, literature and other art forms. In the credits at the end of the credits, you mention many people, from Edger Allan Poe to Stephen Sondheim and Béla Bartók. When you were thinking about this movie, what was the first image that popped into your head?
Leos Carax: Because this film was not my idea, nor was it my work in the first place. Generally speaking, when I create my films, I do have an image or two, or an emotion or two, and then I try to put those initial inspirations together. But this time, the first thing that came to my mind was really the music of the Spark Brothers, the music that has accompanied me in my childhood, the music that brings me joy, although for some other people, it is not a happy music Movie. And then there was a picture of a little girl piercing the darkness like a shining star, and that was the first picture that came to my mind. I've always loved stand-up comedy, stand-up comedy is one of the hardest careers for me, so I was very interested in stand-up comedians like Kaufman and (Lenny Bruce) and I started reading them book and understand how hard it is for them to have to stand on stage to please the audience. Stand-up comedians face a lot of pressure, and it's a nightmare for me. I knew almost nothing about opera, and then I realized that opera is mainly about exploiting women, by all means to allow them to sing the most touching songs. Edgar Allan Poe was long overdue when it came to planning the final scene, but he gave me a lot of inspiration. The last scene is called "Sympathy for the Abyss," which I read from Edgar Allan Poe. Edgar Allan Poe described a man who was hanging by a thread on a cliff, knowing that if he set his eyes on the abyss, he would fall, but he couldn't help but cast his eyes on the abyss.
Devika Girish: What about your tribute to Kim Victor?
Leos Carax: As for Kim Victor, because I borrowed his black-and-white shots of the audience in the film "The Crowd", and I have always liked Kim Victor, so I pay tribute.
Devika Girish: Good. Next comes my last question. Of the movies you've seen recently, which one is your favorite?
Leos Carax: I don't watch movies anymore, so... no.
Devika Girish: What was the last movie you saw?
Leos Carax: I don't remember...
Devika Girish: Because I remember, in an interview with The New York Times in 2012, you said that you thought the sci-fi movie called "Out of Control" was pretty good. So I was wondering what else did you watch after that that you liked?
Leos Carax: I think about it carefully... [Actually, no answer is given later.]
Devika Girish: (to the audience) If you have a question, please raise your hand and the staff will give you the microphone.
Questioner 1: Can you talk about Tom Lehrer's music in the movie?
Leos Carax: I'm not sure young people these days know Tom Lehrer, who in the late '50s and '60s was not only a stand-up comedian but also a math teacher. He's a comedian who loves to sing and plays the piano during his performances, which is fascinating. My parents have his records. So I've known him since childhood, and now I think he's 93 now. In my first two productions when I was 20 or 22, I stole a few lines from the show for my lines. But this time I asked for his permission to quote his work.
Devika Girish: Did you write the lines for Henry's two stand-up comedies in the movie?
Leos Carax: Yes, although he didn't sing much on the second gig. I wrote some songs for the first gig, and then the Spark Brothers wrote some.
Devika Girish (questioner #2): The new question is, does Karax have any fears while working? Or will he think that because I'm Karax, I'm sure I can do well?
Leos Carax: I actually think in the opposite direction, and if I think I'm Leo Carax, I'm going to screw up. I do need chaos though, so I have to be with good people. Build something between my mess and their precision. This is also because I have made too few movies. I sometimes feel completely powerless and I'm getting older, although I've come to accept a little bit of that reality. In any case, every work always looks unfinishable at first, as it should be. When you get a few people together like a bluff, you try to say that it seems like a bit of a possibility, and I know how to do it, whether or not there are actually some actors. That's how I started my film career: I've never made a film. I have never seen a camera. I never studied film. But I just said, I know how to do it, even though it's not true, but because I'm young, people think, maybe he can actually make a movie?
Questioner No. 3: Hello, this movie can be seen as a description of the current celebrities and celebrities' lives, satisfying everyone's curiosity about becoming a star. At the same time, isn't it fair to assume that this is a movie about a parent projecting their own reputation onto their children?
Leos Carax: Actually, I don't feel like the films I make are about anything. I don't know how to do that because I'm not a storyteller, so let me talk about the "Annette" project. What makes this project special is that I wasn't involved in it in the first place. When I was working with Spark Brothers, there was already an element of celebrity here. I find it difficult to photograph the lives of rich people and it is difficult to photograph the lives of famous people. Meanwhile the Spark brothers have their own world, what we call the pop fantasy world full of ironic love. But I think if there's too much irony in the movie it makes people feel bad. So, number one, I don't know how to successfully show the life of a rich man today, because you were that rich man... In the 1950s, people like Vincente Minnelli and Douglas Cy Directors like Douglas Sirk, if understood by the rich, can make films that show the god of failure and identify with tragedy. In my opinion, I like their work in the 50's, but in the present, I can't do like these directors anymore, and that's the problem that has been bothering me. Speaking of which, I forgot about that question...
Devika Girish: (reminder) The question is is this also a movie about parents?
Leos Carax: I initially turned down the Spark Brothers project because they knew so little about me and my life. My daughter was 9 years old at the time, and I was thinking, can I, should I make a movie about bad dads, and if I did, would it bother my daughter? Eventually I figured it out, no, so I went and made Annette. I hope this movie shows more about the father-daughter relationship, especially with the addition of the last scene.
Devika Girish: Did you just say you're not a storyteller? So what do you think you are?
Leos Carax: I don't know, maybe someone who happened to make a movie? (laugh)
Devika Girish: One last question.
Questioner 4: I wonder if you want to break the boundary between the theatrical stage and the musical stage?
Leos Carax: Boundary with what? What is "boundary"?
Devika Girish: It's like a theatrical stage and a musical movie... do you mix the two in some way?
Leos Carax: I don't. From the very beginning the project was more theater-oriented, like So May We Start? "This song was actually written at the very beginning of the project. Just like a theatre, people prepare for a show, it is clear that two actors, Henry and Ann, appear on stage in different ways, but they both have the same vulnerability (Karaks doesn't know much about pronouncing the word). , the host emphasized it with correct pronunciation). Like they were brave enough to sing in this way, the sound is very private. At the same time, it's a muscle memory that gets trained. Like I said, making people laugh on stage is like being naked in front of others. The reason why I set up a stage in the worlds of Henry and Ann, and let the motorcycles shuttle through it, is because I want to use the metaphor of the stage to tell everyone that everything in the musical is fake!
Questioner 5: Will there be more Denis Lawan in the Leos Karax film?
Leos Carax: I don't know, Fassbender made 32 films when he died at the age of 36. I'm thinking, if I'm going to make 32 movies, I'll have to live another 200 years. So if I could do another one, I would definitely do it with Denis Lawan. I don't know if we'll still be working on a movie together, but I'm sure we'll do something together.
Finish
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