Fatal logic errors that cannot be avoided in the twelve angry men

Alexander 2022-03-20 09:01:09

The film is perfect in terms of shooting, plot, suspense and other things that the film needs. However, there is a fatal logical error in the case itself and the final result, and I am willing to discuss it with you here. Let us discuss it
layer by layer : the first layer: all the doubts raised by the jury in the discussion, of course, can be regarded as a "reasonable doubt" of the defendant's guilt, but at the same time, it is very important that all questions about hearing, hearing, Glasses, distance, movies, time to return home, and motives are all just "suspicions" of facts, nor are they negative proof of facts, that is to say, these doubts cannot prove the innocence of the defendant. If you agree with this level, look down.
The second layer: On the basis of the first layer, we can at least say whether the defendant killed or did not kill. It was not confirmed in the end, but it was stated that the defendant was acquitted because of "reasonable suspicion." . This layer agrees, and then look down.
The third layer: Therefore, we can at least make an assumption that the defendant did kill someone. Under this assumption, it can be considered that the questions raised by the jury are "reasonable doubts", but in reality, these doubts must have reasonable explanations and can
be responded to by further proof . This layer agrees, and then look down. (Note that it is assumed that the defendant killed someone.) The
fourth level: Then, if the defendant’s lawyer is very good, he thought of all the doubts raised by the jury during the discussion (the lawyer is mentioned many times in the film as being fucked), These doubts were raised during the court debate. Then, based on the hypothesis that the defendant did kill someone, the prosecutor would be able to easily provide clear and clear explanations and explanations for these doubts through counter-evidence, testing, and cross-examination. instruction.
Fifth layer: The key point is here. The final result is that, assuming that the defendant did kill someone, he hired an excellent lawyer to raise all the questions of the jury in the court debate in advance. The prosecutor will based on the facts, These doubts are explained, the jury will inevitably have no dispute in the end and will directly convict him. However, he hired a terrible lawyer. Without thinking about and raising these doubts in advance, the prosecutor did not have the opportunity to explain and explain these doubts. Finally, when the jury was arguing together, the prosecutor had no chance to raise these doubts. Through actual investigation, evidence collection, and experimentation, the jury directly declared not guilty based on "reasonable suspicion."
The sixth level: good lawyers will be found guilty; bad lawyers will be found not guilty. If there is no problem with logic, then there is a problem with the American judicial system.
Seventh level: In this case, the most feasible proposal is actually the first suggestion, which is to announce the doubt and set up another jury to investigate.
Movies are movies after all, and the biggest selling point is drama conflicts. It will not be a real American trial system. In a true jury system, the jury members will not work as criminal police and lawyers in the background. As long as the defendant’s lawyer does not raise questions, it should not be a question of the jury; reasonable suspicion is on the defendant. It was established on the basis that the lawyer raised questions and made clear his point of view, and the prosecutor was unable to make an adequate counterattack.

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Extended Reading

12 Angry Men quotes

  • Juror #8: [after conducting an experiment to see if the old man could have reached his door in 15 seconds] Here's what I think happened: the old man heard the fight between the boy and his father a few hours earlier. Then, when he's lying in his bed, he heard a body hit the floor in the boy's apartment, heard the woman scream from across the street, got to his front door as fast as he could, heard somebody racing down the stairs and *assumed* it was the boy!

    Juror #6: I think that's possible!

    Juror #3: [from the other side of the room] *"Assumed"?*

    [Everyone looks at #3 as he chuckles]

    Juror #3: Brother, I've seen all kinds of dishonesty in my day, but this little display takes the cake. Y'all come in here with your hearts bleedin' all over the floor about slum kids and injustice, you listen to some fairy tales... Suddenly, you start gettin' through to some of these old ladies. Well, you're not getting through to me, I've had enough.

    [starts shouting]

    Juror #3: What's the *matter* with you guys? You all *know* he's guilty! He's *got* to burn! You're letting him slip through our fingers!

    Juror #8: [brow furrowing] "Slip through our fingers"? Are you his executioner?

    Juror #3: I'm one of 'em!

    Juror #8: ...Perhaps you'd like to pull the switch?

    Juror #3: For this kid? You bet I would!

    Juror #8: [baiting him] I feel sorry for you. What it must feel like to want to pull the switch! Ever since you walked into this room, you've been acting like a self-appointed public avenger. You want to see this boy die because you *personally* want it, not because of the facts! You're a sadist!

    [#3 lunges wildly at #8, who holds his ground. Several jurors hold #3 back]

    Juror #3: I'll kill him! I'll - *kill him!*

    Juror #8: [calmly] You don't *really* mean you'll kill me, do you?

  • Juror #8: [taking a cough drop that Juror #2 offered him] There's something else I'd like to talk about for a minute. Thanks. I think we've proved that the old man couldn't have heard the boy say "I'm gonna kill you", but supposing he did...

    Juror #10: [interrupting] You didn't prove it at all. What're you talking about?

    Juror #8: But supposing he really *did* hear it. This phrase, how many times have all of us used it? Probably thousands. "I could kill you for that, darling." "Junior, you do that once more and I'm gonna kill you." "Get in there, Rocky, and kill him!"... See, we say it every day. That doesn't mean we're gonna kill anyone.

    Juror #3: Wait a minute, what are you trying to give us here? The phrase was "I'm gonna kill you"; the kid yelled it at the top of his lungs... Don't tell me he didn't mean it! Anybody says a thing like that the way he said it, they mean it!

    Juror #2: Well, gee now, I don't know.

    [Everyone looks at #2]

    Juror #2: I remember I was arguing with the guy I work next to at the bank a couple of weeks ago. He called me an idiot, so I yelled at him.

    Juror #3: [pointing at #8] Now listen, this guy's tryin' to make you believe things that aren't so! The kid said he was gonna kill him, and he *did* kill him!

    Juror #8: Let me ask you this: do you really think the kid would shout out a thing like that so the whole neighborhood could hear him? I don't think so; he's much to bright for that.

    Juror #10: Bright? He's a common, ignorant slob. He don't even speak good English.

    Juror #11: [looking up] He *doesn't* even speak good English.