Dou Wentao: "Qiang Qiang Threesome", the only American drama I am following up to now, not only American dramas, but also the world's TV series. Up to now, I still have to follow and watch only "Game of Thrones." Liang Wendao: This kind of play. Dou Wentao: Didn't you watch it? Liang Wendao: I see, but you can say that. You have never heard of it. At first, it seems to be all removed from the website. Haven't you heard of it? It was once rumored that the play had to be taken off the shelves, and there will be this crisis in the future. Why? Do you know that many Japanese animes have been taken off the shelves recently? What about the "Death Note", that is mainly because the three views are not correct. Among the American dramas I have watched, there is no more three-pointed view than "Game of Thrones." Betrayal, killing children, incest, do anything for the sake of power, then praise superstition, then feudalism, promote violence, and then bold sex scenes, none of them are in line with our country's current radio and television censorship system. Xu Zidong: All the criticisms you mentioned are correct, but the problem is that it criticizes the decadent Western culture and history. Liang Wendao: Then if we Chinese make a TV series, it’s all about foreigners acting like this, right? Xu Zidong: Yes, it means that in this drama, all these things you talk about are proof that the west wind is overwhelmed by the east wind, the enemy is decayed day by day, and we get better day by day. Therefore, "Game of Thrones" should continue to be filmed and watched. Liang Wendao: "Killing Children" in "Game of Thrones" breaks through the bottom line Dou Wentao: No, you don't watch it, people all over the world want to watch it, and now I'm talking about this pirated version, I found "Game of Thrones" is HBO, HBO people this No matter how high the state is, piracy is also a statistical data of ratings. As soon as our fifth season came out, for a moment, "Game of Thrones" is now the global piracy record, just the American TV series, the global piracy record. HBO is very proud to say that this piracy reflects how big our momentum is, and they believe that piracy, they magically discovered that the rate of piracy is positively correlated with the rate of watching their show on TV, and they are both high. So, they don’t seem to care much about it, why? Because they think that those who watch pirated copies, not only will they not affect those who watch TV or HBO, but will push the drum to watch the HBO boom. why? Here I always talk about one thing, one of the reasons is my reason, that is, the requirement for quality. For the Chinese movies you made, you just make them well, right, if I can watch a disc, you won’t be able to solve my problem, and I don’t need to go to the cinema. But "Game of Thrones" I want to watch Blu-ray, I want to watch 1080 P, because of such a beautiful and magnificent scenery, and you can look at the photos, Queen Elizabeth, she was mostly shot in Northern Ireland, Queen Elizabeth looked at this, you see. Xu Zidong: This is the throne. Liang Wendao: The Iron Throne. Dou Wentao: How many iron thrones of that sword were cast by the fire of the fire cage, I found that the queen is particularly enlightened, but if it weren't for being a queen for a long time, it would be especially sense of measure. Some people say, Queen, go up and sit down. Liang Wendao: Of course she won't. Dou Wentao: What kind of image do you think she is sitting on, right? Liang Wendao: Of course she can't. Dou Wentao: The queen said, I just have a look here. This is the famous avenue, avenue, look at this strange tree, look down, is this gone? Liang Wendao: I can't watch it below. Dou Wentao: Anyway, I chose a lot of beautiful scenery all over the world in Northern Ireland. Xu Zidong: Each episode of HBO broadcasts is probably a little over 50 minutes. Liang Wendao: 50 minutes. Xu Zidong: But when it waits for the release, its content is a bit more. Dou Wentao: Then you have to watch it. The naked ones are all in that disc, right? Xu Zidong: It's the deleted things, which are also deleted in HBO. Liang Wendao: Those who are more yellow and violent? Xu Zidong: Yes, more yellow and more violent. Liang Wendao: Because even in the West, the decadent West, they look at it as pornographic and violent. do you know? In the entertainment version of their newspapers in Europe and the United States, they publish drama reviews every week. Depending on how well the episode of this TV series is performed, they even set some standards for this drama. I remember that the U.S. doesn’t know which newspaper, what’s the pornographic index this week, what’s the violence index this week, and what’s the immoral index this week. For example, in the latest episode ninth, the sex index this week is just average. So, no sex scenes. Xu Zidong: That's the fire cage, come out loudly. Liang Wendao: But when it comes to the non-caused index, it exceeds the standard because of the killing of one's own children. Xu Zidong: It was the father who killed the child. It really broke the bottom line. It really broke the bottom line. Dou Wentao: So how should I look at this drama, even when it came out in the fifth season, it also aroused a lot of criticism, including the feminist groups, they stopped doing it, it was all rape, rape, gang rape and tragic rape, all sorts of things. Of evil. Liang Wendao: Then I started to engage in children. Dou Wentao: Gang rape and adultery are the realism of the inferiority of men and women in the Middle Ages in Europe. Dou Wentao: You think this is a good-looking TV series like the devil. It shows all the devil-like things and psychology in human nature. Liang Wendao: Let me talk about the original novel first, I think it's actually very special. Why is George Martin? Because this drama and this novel were originally positioned as so-called fantasy novels like popular literature. However, what is a fantasy novel or a fantasy movie is that there are always many magical and supernatural things, such as the devil, right? This is the most typical thing, "Harry Potter". However, there is a very special place between this novel and this drama, where is it special, that is, it has these and what is there with dragons, but it compresses the magic elements to a minimum, very low compression, even the first two seasons. Basically not much. It is equivalent to to a certain extent, it is a historical novel, but it is a fictional historical novel. The fun part of historical novels is to give us a chance to see history, not just to see the actual events in history, how about Caesar, how about Cao Cao In this way, at the same time, it is to understand human nature, how a country operates, and how power operates through the interpretation of historical novels. Dou Wentao: For example, you were complained this time, that is, rape of the women in the play, the original author. Xu Zidong: Where did you commit adultery to women? Dou Wentao: You haven't watched it yet. Xu Zidong: I have already watched the ninth episode, the latest one. Liang Wendao: Your moral standards are different from Wen Tao. In his opinion, it is not called chaotic rape. You think it is a normal relationship between men and women. Dou Wentao: I haven't watched it yet, but what I watched is a Western drama review. When I watch the rape, I think I have to watch it. All the women have been raped. Regarding the original author, the author of the original novel, if he doesn't talk about his character, that is, he not only resists these criticisms, but resolutely does not change it, saying that this thing is not my decision, right. What I wrote is a novel. Another, he said that he can only write according to historical reality, which is really called historical reality. He said that my TV series is based on the history of the Middle Ages in Europe. He basically is such a hypothetical scene. European medieval history is about male superiority and female inferiority. Women are often violated by men's tyranny. He said that this is a historical fact. This is what many barbarians were at that time, and that's how men dealt with women. Liang Wendao: Violence. Dou Wentao: So he said, I am also a kind of truth. You see, you think it is very interesting. I found that our Chinese's specialty is to photograph the real like the fake, and the foreigner's specialty is to photograph the fake like the real. Xu Zidong: Yes, that’s great. This play ranges from ordinary people to authoritative critics. For example, Professor Liu Shaoming, who doesn’t watch TV dramas much, focuses exclusively on this play. Liang Wendao: Really? He loves to watch. Dou Wentao: It's so good. Xu Zidong: That's good. I'm also thinking, what's so good about it in the first season At that time I was very cold, I didn't want to watch it. Dou Wentao: I like to watch my first shot. Xu Zidong: Later, I got fascinated little by little. The first I think the most obvious benefit is that the details are true. You really have to admire him for this. Liang Wendao: It's strange, you call such a fictitious thing real. Xu Zidong: Yes, his story is unreliable, completely non-existent, but his details, that is to say you fight, look at the last snow fight with the white ghost, the first two episodes just appeared, the fight is more historical than the current one. The face of the war in China must be more specific and real. Dou Wentao: That's right. Xu Zidong: The details are really true. I have taken this one alone. Liang Wendao: And the human nature is real. Dou Wentao: The Chinese market has either become a kindergarten or a zoo. Dou Wentao: What do you think of the dog-blood dramas we filmed, and what do you dare to call "Step by Step Startling", stop teasing, this is called "Step by Step Startling" ", you know it’s really dare, all you think you can’t die, just say you die and die, that guy. Liang Wendao: You thought you were the protagonist, but you died. Xu Zidong: Yes, the actor ran away and his head was chopped off. Liang Wendao: His mother is all dead. Xu Zidong: This was originally the male lead, right? We all know that the male protagonist will never die, Jackie Chan will never die, and Arnold will never die, right? After the first episode, the head is gone. Next, we can't find North, and the hero is gone, what can we do? It's such a play. Liang Wendao: All the rest are bad guys. Dou Wentao: Yes. Liang Wendao: And what I think is interesting is that in this movie, you see its views on people. Of course, we say that it exaggerates violence and the dark side of people, but it is very credible. Because we have read about the so-called heroes and those in power in history, their struggles for power are played in accordance with this. For example, the dragon mother and the little dragon girl appear in it, as a liberator, who liberates the slaves, but then it can't be done. It turns out that she can't govern the country, which involves many complicated political issues. Does this social class inequality mean that it will be good to liberate the common people, and that it will be good to suppress all the rich? For another example, look at the kind of king and queen he talked about. The queen was in intrigue and finally won the big place, but she has to rely on the power of religion, but how will the power of religion come over and take her back? This Both. Xu Zidong: The Red Guards, his cultivation of religious forces reminds me of those in Germany. Liang Wendao: Or it was the same for the church in the past. Dou Wentao: You know what you said reminds me What? That is to say that some people recently wrote an article in the circle of friends, which is about worrying about the country and the people, that is, Chinese TV is moving towards anti-intellectual tendency, it is anti-intelligence, it is anti-intellectual, that is, TV stations are chased by ratings. Then he was completely anti-intellectual. Anti-intellectual, because it must reflect the stupidest people with no lower limit, but this is hopeless, do you know? Because it now shows a large number of statistics that high-income and middle-income audiences are now getting away from TV. That is to say, you can be like this, and you can be like this. This kind of culture, or the lower the price of accepting ability, the more inclined the crowd. In the short term, you get the ratings, but in the long run, everyone knows the results. In the end, I have an assessment that you will either become a kindergarten or a zoo. It is that you all develop in this direction. Xu Zidong: The last one is the toddler zoo. Dou Wentao: Yes, the toddler zoo, but you look at it, you are like "Game of Thrones" that you just talked about. Some people say that these three views seem to be negative things. If you want to say that, please take a look. Shakespeare, do you know? It is for adults, including "House of Cards", do you think the politics of "House of Cards" is so dark? Yes, it is to let the American people know that these politicians may deceive you, despite the fact. Xu Zidong: I saw a professor from the Central Party School who took "House of Cards" and said, look at how corrupt the United States is. Dou Wentao: Yes, it is, do you know it, it is for thinking adults, including "Game of Thrones" allows you to see the human nature, let you see the darkness of human nature, but the audience watching this kind of things is not only He won't become a bad guy and a devil, but he seems to have a pair of eyes of God. He saw everything, allowing the audience to see everything in the position of a god. So I told them that this Persian painting is called miniature painting, and Pamuk seems to have written a novel called red. Liang Wendao: "My Name is Red". Dou Wentao: The formation of this Persian miniature painting is very interesting. Even on the east-west exchange on the Silk Road, it was influenced by Western oil paintings and court paintings from China, forming this kind of meticulous and meticulous painting. . His painting is different from China, and only one of them from Chinese and Western paintings. It is said that Islam does not advocate idols, but he paints images, but this painting has a characteristic. Look at this Persian miniature painting, there is no light and shade. He paints the night. Just like the day, there is only one moon, you know this is the night. But he painted this, for example, a man and a woman are in love behind the wall, and the perspective behind the wall and the wall is the same. He can see it all, there is no blind spot of vision. Later, I said that this had something to do with his Islamic faith, because of what, because it was sacred, it assumed that the eyes of Allah were looking down on the world. Therefore, every corner of your world, whether it is a corner where the sun shines, or a dark corner where the sun does not shine, appears in the eyes of Allah, nothing slips through the net, you see everything. Therefore, I sometimes feel that for such so-called TV shows that show the dark side of human nature, as long as you shoot them truthfully and tall, you can respect the audience as the eyes of God, and the audience really sees them all. Liang Wendao: But Wen Tao, you know, this is a very strange thing. Dou Wentao: Let's go to the advertisement first, "Qiang Qiang Threesome", see you after the advertisement. Liang Wendao: But you know that we have been talking about this issue for more than ten years. That is to say, China does not know why a very outdated and weird theory in communication is still popular. It will think that your TV series, movie or a In the mass media, what content it presents, the audience will take it all in the literal sense, and imitate and learn. For example, if you watch a movie like "Game of Thrones", according to our prevailing media viewpoint, we will feel that the audience will become bad after watching it, and the audience will kill children after watching it. Dou Wentao: Yes, the audience will go and have sex when they watch it. Liang Wendao: Yes, this is a very outdated media theory. According to this method, all people in Shakespeare's time want to kill Dad or something, right? Or kill sister, kill sister, but why not? It is never true. The audience always has their own judgment. It's not that I'm advocating in a drama, and everyone will follow. But such a theory is still very popular, so the notice also restricts what we can and cannot see. For example, you just said why we can’t shoot such things in China. Of course, we have a tendency to become mentally retarded. But besides the sprinkling of dog’s blood, there is another kind of retarded mentality. What kind of retarded mentality? An example. This example is actually not today's example. It was an event ten years ago or ten years ago, but I think we are a bit like that now. At that time, I heard that there was a minority region, a region dominated by ethnic minorities. A writer wrote a script. After writing that script, it was judged. What were the five-one projects in the past, first started from the local area, and then asked for it. Going up to the whole country, in the local level, I was almost able to go up, but then I was listed in the column and I changed my word and went to choose. You know what his script is about. What he is talking about is that there are many problems in this minority area. What about many social and political contradictions? As a result, a young man came to the Organization Department, that is, a young man, a young party member, and a cadre came to Beijing to work in the countryside. After he worked tirelessly and put in countless hard work, he made this place a success. Although he is a Han, all the ethnic minorities are very satisfied and grateful. Everyone is a family and is very upright, right? Do you know why you still say no? You can’t guess, because he wants to establish this positive hero, this young man in Beijing, this young party member, he must have some negative characters to set off, and those negative characters are frankly not all bad people, it’s just that The writing is a little lazy and conservative in thinking. Who are those people? Of course, they are the old cadres in the original place. This is wrong. Dou Wentao: Are you Han Chinese? Liang Wendao: It is a Han and there are ethnic minorities, so it involves a problem, that is, your script is very good, the theme is correct, but what they are asking for changes, can you say that the original cadres are also very good, newcomers After this person comes, we will make them better and better. So everyone is watching TV, you do literature, do you write basics and novels like this? You have to highlight a hero, and you can’t use a more negative person to set off his positive person. Conversely, you have to say that everyone is positive, but there is a more positive one. If you say that this is called anti-intellectual, it is actually anti-intellectual. wisdom. Xu Zidong: Let’s look at the introduction to literature. We have three basic functions of literature, one is the cognitive function, the other is the educational function, and the third is the aesthetic function. Therefore, China has always emphasized this educational function. In fact, this is not only for decades, not only in the past, but also has always emphasized the educational function. Ziping once said that Chinese literature is too politicized, and Chinese politics is too literary. In fact, we can also deduce it. China's current education is too literary. We take exams, but Chinese literature too emphasizes its educational function. So, what you are talking about is that many people think that what appears in your literary works is what you use to teach children. It is based on this principle. Now "Tai囧", "Heart Flower Road Release", " The orthodox people of "Journey to the West: Conquering the Demons" are also not satisfied. That is to say, people in the art world are dissatisfied and feel that they are going to low. Orthodox people emphasize the main theme, and they also think that you are going down. Xu Zidong: Under the simple logic of anti-Japanese drama Hand tearing and crotch can all come out Liang Wendao: I think it is vulgar. But the problem is that I often see people criticizing this vulgar and that vulgar, OK, but what kind of thing is not vulgar? If you really take what we have in the history of literature and art, which is classic and tall, in fact they may not be able to accept it. Like you just said about Shakespeare, Goethe is also very dark, and you Dante is also very dark. Bringing all these things, our ancient Chinese texts are actually problematic. What is it, how can it be not vulgar, but also tall and correct. Dou Wentao: So let me give you an example, that is, this tall and vulgar is like vulgarity, right, you are very interesting, for example. For example, some people think that the people we watch on this show are still high-level people, but other people may think that I am a representative of vulgarity, right? It’s just that sometimes our evaluation is very confusing, but when you look at the same thing, we say that you can know that the anti-Japanese drama, the crotch is stuffed with grenades, why do you think it is so vulgar or so. But let me say the same thing to you, which is a line in "Game of Thrones", this queen Cersei Lannister, the queen is in a dialogue, she told this woman, she said, "Tears are not the only thing for women. Weapon, there is one more between your legs." Is this word very yellow? Liang Wendao: Vulgar and very yellow. Dou Wentao: But let me tell you, any intellectual who hears such a line will feel that it is not only not pornographic, but also writes it very well. For example, the little devil with little finger, that little one, now he is the hottest. The little guy smiled and said when the kingdom of Varys was about to face chaos, saying, "Chaos is not an abyss, chaos is a ladder", but I would also think that there are indeed some Chinese audiences who might have heard such a line. , They will be this expression, and it is true. Xu Zidong: The other line that impressed me the most was the little finger. You know the one inside. When he wants to marry that eldest daughter to a very bad person, there is no justice in this world, there is no justice, For, there is no justice or fairness in this world, unless we fight for it. This is the (best) I have ever heard. Liang Wendao: They actually wrote very beautiful lines. Dou Wentao: Yes. Liang Wendao: Especially that little devil, the character in the play, is a dwarf, that little devil, because he is a person who reads poems and books, so if you look at his lines carefully, they are very literary in English. He speaks beautiful, very beautiful English. Dou Wentao: Some of us write such a drama, that is, if I write such a thing, the Chinese audience will not understand it. In the end, whether he estimated it wrong or it was correct, I can’t tell. "Qiang Qiang Threesome", see you after the ad. Xu Zidong: Lu Xun has a generalization in "A Brief History of Chinese Novels". He summarized ancient Chinese novels into a category called historical novels. The second category is gods and demons, this ghost category; the third is secular human sentiment, which is " "Dream of Red Mansions", "Jin Ping Mei" these. What happened in modern times is heroic and chivalrous, and it gradually differentiated from historical romances. Zhu Tianxin likes Wang Anyi for one reason. She said that mainland writers are fan of the Three Kingdoms, but Wang Anyi is a fan of Red Mansions. What’s so good about this drama? In my opinion, "Game of Thrones" is the basic framework of a historical drama, with a small amount of gods and ghosts and ghosts added. This is ours, which is equivalent to a territory of the Three Kingdoms. Added a little "Journey to the West". You see, there are characters who invade chivalry in it, but it is far from our Jin Yong's chivalry. Because of Jin Yong's chivalry, the chivalry we are accustomed to has both good and evil, and there must be good. There is no absolute for all the people in it. There is no absolute evil. So far, we have not seen that even no matter how upright people are there are evil places, and no matter how evil people are, there are also righteous places. This is a huge breakthrough in its genre. In our opinion, most of the generalizations mentioned by Lu Xun can be summarized in the drama of mass communication. It is a breakthrough. Recently, He Guimei from Peking University is a very good scholar. She wrote a very good paper, analyzing our anti-Japanese theme, which is the genre characteristics of the anti-Japanese theme and the liberation war theme. It turns out that our TV series Anti-Japanese theme has taken the path of heroism and chivalry. Only the theme of the War of Liberation takes the historical romance. What does it mean? For example, "No War in Beiping", you can see that it is fighting for this world. At that time, it is to fight for the hearts of the people, that is, there are good and bad in this person, fighting for it. But when the anti-Japanese war came, there were people on one side and ghosts on the other, do you understand? There is no right or wrong. People deal with ghosts, so all hands and crotches can come out, understand? It is based on the genre
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