Thierry Us, Serge Dubiana (hereinafter referred to as "Q"): At the closing ceremony of the Venice Film Festival, you announced that you will no longer Participate in film awards. Did you make this decision before you won the Palme d’Or award?
Abbas (hereinafter referred to as "A"): I came up with this idea after attending the last Cannes Film Festival. I just want to wait for the right opportunity to announce to the public that I think the Venice Film Festival is a good time. People may think that I was unhappy about the Palme d’Or selection, but my decision has nothing to do with Palme d’Or. I no longer want to participate in any film awards. I have been making movies for 30 years, and I have participated in 30 years of film awards, now it’s time to quit. With my experience as a judge of film festivals, I find it difficult to judge films by well-known authors. Opportunities should be given to young directors, and efforts should be made to select the work itself rather than the author’s name. Today, people pay more attention to the author’s name when
judging awards... Q: Mardan Kalmitz, the producer of "Go With the Wind", told us that you didn’t have a script before shooting this film. What did you use? What kind of method was used to make the film?
A: Before shooting, I only wrote a two-page outline and gave it to Maran Kalmitz. I have filmed 4 films in the countryside. Before I went to the village of Siah Daleh to shoot "Go With the Wind", I was influenced by other villages where I had filmed before. But after arriving in Lech Village, I found that it was different from other villages. There, the villagers changed my overall idea of this film and the themes that have been formed. Obviously, I tried to impose my views on things, but later found out that I should adapt to reality.
Q: How do Iranian film agencies view your filming methods?
A: It depends on two things. On the one hand, the West’s attention to my films has had a considerable impact, although the relevant parties deny this. On the other hand, they also began to realize my method of making films. They knew that the films I made had nothing to do with politics, at least not directly, so they let me shoot them as they please. When I use the word politics to talk about movies, what I want to say is that I never use political slogans. In our country, the parties concerned are particularly afraid of political slogans because they believe that people will be affected by these slogans.
Q: What did the collaboration with France bring you, such as this collaboration with Mardan Kalmitz?
A: Since the cost of my film is not high, I don't need foreign funds. However, co-production is an important support for me, because after finishing the production of this film, I can send it to France, so the censorship will be more worry-free. What is certain is that people here will show the film to the critics under the best conditions. French film production agencies treat the film like children and are good at helping children grow up.
Question: This film is still filmed in the countryside. What criteria did you choose this village according to? Which parts of the film were improvised?
A: Let me give you an example. In the initial thoughts, the film crew came to the village to discuss with the old lady and asked her to pretend to be dying. We also specifically told her that it was for the purpose of making a movie. But at the shooting scene, I found that I couldn't communicate with her at all, because she was indeed dying. I can't communicate with the villagers who are busy working all day. They don't have time to answer my questions. I have never seen anyone working so hard. The whole village is like a labor camp. Even the children don’t have time to participate in my filming activities. I had to give up most of the original ideas, communication was impossible, and I myself had doubts about this topic. On the one hand, it is because of the actual situation of the villagers, and on the other hand, because of my conceptual problems. This film is like letting the audience make a complicated jigsaw puzzle with jigsaw puzzles.
Question: It is also true that this is a film in which people can interpret reality in many ways.
A: I don't trust movies that only allow the audience to interpret reality, but like to provide multiple possibilities for the interpretation of reality and let the audience choose. I have met such audiences whose imagination is richer than the imagination that I incorporate into the film. I like the kind of film that allows every audience to interpret it freely, as if this film is their own work. For example, someone mentioned the myth of Sisyphus when interpreting a scene in this film, which is the scene where we see a scarab moving a ball. This perspective means that people know the myth of Sisyphus. If a film can produce many different interpretations, it means it is successful.
Question: Compared with your last film "The Taste of Cherry", people feel that the light in "Go With the Wind" is brighter, they feel more love for nature, and the characters are more colorful.
A: Speaking of "Follow the Wind", I really don't know where to start. This film consumes a lot of my energy, especially the recording work. This is the most difficult one of all my works. During the shooting, a lot of friction occurred between me and the crew. When watching this film, people will feel that the relationship between the protagonist and the residents is very indifferent, and this indifference also exists between me and my technicians. At the end of the shooting, most of the technical staff of the film crew were gone. Only me and a few assistants were left. Together, we completed the shooting task of "Go With the Wind". My director of photography is a professional, but he can't get up in the morning, can't shoot in the morning, and only works in the afternoon. The filming work has only been underway for a week, and we understand each other that we cannot continue to cooperate.
Q: How long did the shooting phase last?
A: Nine weeks. The village was very dirty, and flies were flying everywhere. A lot of our energy and funds were spent on cleaning and driving away flies, because flies affected the recording. Our approach disrupted the daily lives of the villagers. The cleaning agent we used poisoned many chickens and the villagers were very upset. For them, we didn't go there for work. They had never seen a film crew or foreigners coming to the village. If we are in other parts of Iran, we can cooperate with the villagers, but in this village we cannot communicate with the villagers.
Question: Movies are a cause of chaos for this village?
A: Yes, the villagers don't like us.
Question: The protagonist of the film itself is a chaotic factor. He appears alone in the village, like a person watching the excitement.
A: Yes, the villagers refused to perform in front of the camera. At the end of the film, some women pass by the camera, and the protagonist takes pictures of them. Since they looked at the camera, it can be said that the protagonist "sneaked" the photos of these women, which is consistent with the theme we want to express.
Question: Please tell us about the scene of the wife and husband in the cafe. In our impression, this is a quarrel about work issues, but it is quite philosophical.
A: The dialogue in this scene is based on what I encountered in other villages. The woman is not a villager in this village, but from a city. People thought that she said those words herself. In fact, this was an article she read from a book, but she performed so well that people felt that those words were her own.
Question: Your film again refers to the great poet Omar Hayam. His poems are characterized by sensationalism, often depicting death and destruction. Does his work have many readers in Iran?
A: In Iran, Omar Khayyam’s position is so important that it is difficult to comment on. He is well-known all over the world. Some people even told me that the circulation of his books is second only to the Bible. One day in Japan, I was talking about Omar Hayam. An editor of a publishing house found nine different editions of Hayam poems. My reference to Omar Hayam in film creation began in "Life Continues", when I went to the earthquake site to watch the earthquake disaster. Before that, I had never seen the contradiction between life and death so close. It was also at that moment that I felt that I had captured the soul of Omar Hayam's philosophy and poetry. It is based on the principle: if you want to understand life, you must be close to death and witness death with your own eyes. At the earthquake site, I have a very deep experience. I went there not to watch death, but to discover life. Those days were of decisive significance to me, and an earthquake happened to me too-that day happened to be my 50th birthday.
Question: Do Iranian audiences understand the poems that appeared in your film?
A: In Iran, poetry is written in spoken language. It may not be spoken by young people today, but it is spoken by the ancestors. Although many people are illiterate, this does not prevent them from reciting the verses of this or that poet. The younger generation doesn't know much about these poems. For example, my own children are not interested in them. They just want to watch videos. Furu Falkhzad's poems are also very famous. She is the first female poet in Iran, and she talks about women's issues and the sexual relationship between men and women in a sincere manner in her poems. She died at the age of 32, the victim of a car accident. She was very famous before she was alive, and her thoughts were very close to Hayam. The poem that appears in this film is one of her best poems. The title is "Follow the Wind". The title of this film comes from this poem. There are a few lines in it: Sooner or later, Feng'er Will take us away like a dead leaf...
Q: The following scene is incredible: the young woman (we can't see her face) is milking a cow, while the man is reading a very erotic song Poetry. Each of them is offering a gift to each other: women provide milk to men, and men read poetry to women. It can be said that this is a real scene depicting love.
A: This is your interpretation, but it is very beautiful. Others said to me that men are going to find milk, and milk represents the light in the dark night. This gift (milk or white light), the woman gave it to her fiance or husband, the man who was digging in the ground. For me, it is very interesting to see her and her fiance working in the dark and communicating in an underground way.
Question: But what is that underground man doing?
A: He said that he was digging a hole to install the antenna, in order to communicate.
Question: Communication is one of the themes of your film. The protagonist of the film can only receive information from the outside world through his mobile phone in a limited place, which is the cemetery of the village.
A: Your explanation is very good. The cemeteries in all the villages are on the hills. I often ask why this is, but no one can answer me.
Question: What is the status of the movie in the midst of the erratic life and death? Is it to shoot death? Or is it for the birth of a new life?
A: To be honest, I don't know anything about this issue. In short, the film is to record things. When people do not record something, people do not realize its existence. This is related to the power of the picture, which is more informative than the reality itself.
Question: In "Life Continues", people are taken to a village destroyed in an earthquake, and the undead wandering over the ruins. In "The Taste of Cherry", death once again becomes the theme of the film, and there is also a description of the funeral ceremony in this film. The subject of your film seems to be more or less related to death.
A: This may be unconscious. The experience of filming "Life Continues" especially made me feel that life is like a play. For example, I encountered a scene where some villagers were washing children's shrouds, and at the same time they were washing tablecloths. What this film captures is more life than death. People of course feel sad because of the disaster brought about by the earthquake, but deep in their hearts, they are happy that they can continue to survive. Hayam's poetry or philosophy explains this idea of life as a passinger. Some people say that the saddest music in the world is the "tick" sound of clocks. It makes us want to take off the passing time and remember that we are constantly approaching death. On the surface, these "ticking" sounds are no different, but in fact, each sound is different from the previous sound, because the latter sound always brings us closer to death than the previous sound. If people pay too much attention to this kind of thing, then they have to die. However, sometimes people still notice the existence of death, such as when an earthquake occurs. While we express our condolences for the deceased, each of us also experiences a certain kind of happiness in our hearts. Just because we are still alive, I feel hungry every time I leave the funeral. Last year, I attended the funeral of a filmmaker. Women stood on one side and men stood on the other side. The filmmaker’s wife was dressed in black and looked even more beautiful. A man standing next to me said to me: "Look at how beautiful his wife is!" Even in such a specific situation of death, this mood is true.
Q: Do you have a preference for your own videos?
A: Yes, for example, I prefer "Close-up", other films are average (laughs).
Q: Do you have any special relationship with "Close-up"?
A: I didn't have time to think about this when shooting this film. In fact, I was preparing to shoot another film before shooting "Close-up", and only at the last moment did I temporarily change my mind. I filmed this film with the camera crew without preparation. The shooting stage lasted for more than 40 days. Filming during the day and night recording the shooting diary, after editing and synthesizing, it was sent to the Tehran Film Festival for screening. Normally I cannot watch my own films with the audience, but there are two exceptions, once I watched "The Taste of Cherry" in Cannes, and the last time I watched "Gone with the Wind" in Venice. Normally I don’t watch my own film, but I watched "Close-up" with the audience. In order to verify whether everything in the film was arranged well, I watched from the beginning to the end, as if I had just discovered this film. . When I was watching my other films, I knew even if a viewer left the theater, but it was different when I watched "Close-up", because the protagonist’s story always attracted me, until the end my sight did not leave the screen. Compared with my other films, this film is the least pretentious, and I like it very much like all the audience.
Q: Is there a shadow of yourself in "Follow the Wind"?
A: Yes, but it is not mainly expressed through the protagonist. I saw my shadow in the child in the film. Similarly, in "Close-up", I recognized myself through the character of Ali Sabazian and Ahankah’s family. This character is considered to be engaged in fraudulent activities. I am like the deceptive protagonist and the victim. He deceived people. In all these films, some characters really resemble the director of the film. In the movie "Go With the Wind", the woman in the cafe resembles me, except that she is a woman.
Q: The more you make your movie, the more it looks like a mystery.
A: Making a movie is like curing a disease. It may be the most expensive treatment in the world (laughs). People can discover the personality of the film artist through the film, but the film does not have to be exactly the same as its director, because the director hides behind the characters he creates.
Question: Does the unconscious occupy a certain place in Iranian culture?
A: In Islam, everyone should be responsible for their actions and should pay attention to what they do. The unconscious does not occupy a special place. Freud excused us from all responsibilities, such as passing the responsibility to our father. There is no such image of a father in Islam, and everyone is responsible for their actions. In contemporary Iran, psychoanalysis is also developing. In the field of art, the unconscious has an important position. For example, the relationship between the movie and death you just mentioned is related to my unconscious.
Q: In most of your films, children play an important role. In "Go with the Wind", how do you deal with the relationship between children and adults?
A: I have become estranged from the association, which is the Iran Youth Education Development Association for which I worked. I have also become estranged from my children, they have grown up. Although my relationship with them has become estranged, the children's outlook on life continues to attract my interest. This concept is both cunning and mysterious. It is close to the concept of Iranian mythology, especially the concept of Hayam: children in real life imagine another world, and they have a good attitude towards daily life. They do not deceive in their feelings, they make no secret of their emotions, anger, sorrow, and scolding, and there is no hatred between them. They build and then quickly destroy what they build. Their understanding of life is better than ours, in any case better than my photography director, he sleeps until two o'clock in the afternoon (laughs).
Q: In this film, aren't children educating adults?
A: At some point in the film, the child said that he hoped to succeed in the exam and that the old woman would recover. I like to make this kid rebel against adults and refuse to reconcile with adults. The child maintains his personality and keeps his distance from the adult.
Question: The structure of this village is like a pyramid, with children as guides for adults.
A: It's the same in "Life is Continuing", where the child acts as a guide. I think children’s life concepts are better than ours, even though we have more experience than them. If you pay attention, you will find that what they show us is the true face of life. They have no thoughts of death. They know that people live first and then disappear.
Question: Does the actor's behavior have anything to do with the child (such as the child in this film)? What kind of agreement can people have with him?
A: You should play (act) with him, otherwise he will not act, which means you will become a child yourself. The child does not consider money or wages, has no concept of contract, and does not consider any reputation issues. If we don't think about these things ourselves, we may do our job well. I am jealous of the children.
Question: In this movie, an adult turned the tortoise over and turned his back to the ground. This is a childlike behavior, a bit cruel.
A: This behavior is indeed a bit childish, but the tortoise turned his body over again, and his life continued.
Question: Compared with your previous film, the recording of this film is more artificial. How did the post-recording work proceed?
A: The sound is as important as the picture. The audience can think of something through the sound, just like through the picture. Many of the characters in this film did not show up in the picture, but people can feel their presence through the sound. When filming "Where is My Friend's House", I read a book about Bresson that was translated into Iranian. There are two film artists that people can't help but pay attention to. The first is Bresson, especially his sound concept. The picture projected on the screen is only a part of a cube, a plane, but life is multi-faceted, and sound creates a three-dimensional sense of space. Usually, people tend to block out the sound in reality when making a film. In fact, it is the sound that gives the film a three-dimensional effect. Not only must the sound inside the lens be recorded, but also the sound outside the picture must be supplemented to make the film have a real three-dimensional effect.
Question: These characters did not appear on the screen, but people can hear them. I wonder if you like Phantom.
A: Yes, they are like phantoms, such as the one who uses motors to make sounds. We have done sound experiments on more than a dozen people. The invisible person should give the impression that he will break into this space at any time. Maran Kalmitz told me about a role he played in a Bresson film. He had only one line and the voice-over: "He’s coming!" He seemed to repeat ten times. Several times, in order to achieve the tone Bresson required (here refers to the film "Au hasard Balthazar [Au hasard Balthazar]-Interviewer's Note). Let me give you another example of sound: There is a moment in this film, when the invisible man is digging, but people hear the sound of him digging, and at the same time they hear the sound of a bird. There were no birds in the shooting scene. The sound of birds was recorded elsewhere. I added it to the vocal cords in the later recording to better express the environment.
Question: In your opinion, we can almost say that the vocal cords tell another story.
A: Exactly. We can have five channels in order to create another dimension of the picture. There is a scene in the film: In order to tell the villagers that the man digging was buried under the rubble, the protagonist drove a car along the hillside towards the village. To make this scene more dramatic, I added other sounds besides the car's sound. I used sound instead of music.
Question: So you accepted the notion that sound is not realistic, on the contrary, it can make the film have an unreal or surreal dimension.
A: Yes, just don't distort reality too much. This is a sound that is close to reality, but at the same time it is processed.
Q: When watching your film, can people understand or feel the status quo in Iran?
A: No, there is no direct relationship between the two. This is also a question I should ask myself. Living in Iran, I was influenced by what happened around me. I am an Iranian citizen, and my passport was issued by the government, but I don’t want my film to have an Iranian passport. In Iran, people condemned me for filming for a foreign film festival, thinking that I was wrong. I make movies for humans. My movie does not have precise geographic boundaries. It is about humans as a whole. Movies have no passports, just like trees.
Q: Does this mean that you may be filming outside of Iran?
A: I am an Iranian, just like the village in the film is an Iranian village. I grew up under the nurturing of Iranian culture. I may make a movie here, but like a football player, playing at home may play the ball better. The rules of football are international. Football in all countries is round. People do not need to know the language of the country in which they are located, but they can play better on the football field of their own country.
Q: There will also be spectators playing football in your own country. Do you have spectators in Iran?
A: I have more viewers here. I never thought about this problem before (laughs).
Question: You did not mention the names of other filmmakers who have impressed you.
A: For example, Tarkovsky. His methods of making images are very rich, both realistic and surreal. For me, he is not a Russian film artist, but from another world, from a world called "movie" by people.
Question: In this very special movie of yours, the real things are mixed with the abstract things. This has changed the way people think about your movies, your previous movies are closely intertwined with reality.
A: Movies close to dreams are more beautiful. I don't know which category you would put me into (laughs).
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