This is an interview with Isabel Huppert at the 2001 Regus London Film Festival. It is about the different films and dramas she has participated in, the different directors she has worked with, and more about the actors. The analysis, setting, and grasp of self-role basically all have extraordinary meanings. It is a very deep interview with actors.
The most undisputed excellent actor of this era, Isabel Huppert has always been fearless, what is suitable for screen screening, so she filmed the latest controversial award-winning film "Piano Teacher", the French star Looking back on her extraordinary career, which includes her long-term working partners, Jean-Luc Godard and Claude Chablow.
Christopher Cook (hereinafter referred to as CC): Ladies and gentlemen, Isabelle Huppert!
[Applause] Michael Haneke wanted to work with you a long time ago, is it true?
Isabelle Huppert (hereinafter referred to as IH): Yes, he came to meet me before doing "Funny Games", I didn't pick it up, because the movie hadn't taken shape at that time-the way to show violence is to rely on people's experience . There is too much room for imagination and it is too dangerous for the actors. I didn't have the courage to put in... Although, it turns out that this is a very good movie. But there is no plot, no tragic role that meets the needs of acting. As an actor, no matter how difficult it is, I hope to be able to play a somewhat tragic role, just like "Piano Teacher". "Piano Teacher" is a tragedy, "Happy Heart" is not.
CC: When you saw "Piano Teacher", did you doubt the film for a while?
IH: Of course not. When Michael Haneke gave me the script, he told me that maybe you wouldn't pick it up, because this one is not as good as "Happy Heart". But after I saw it, I didn't think it was bad, because in a sense it has a very classic structure. There are three very easy characters in a story. I can say that it is quite simple. So based on these reasons, I immediately knew that I had met a very good character, and there were a lot of complex emotions lurking in this movie. Everything is deeply attracted to me.
CC: When did you start adjusting yourself? How did you do it when Erica first appeared?
IH: I think that as an audience, you will want to know why you want to make a movie, but as an actor, you don't need to think about this question. For us, what matters is how you make a movie, not why you make it. This is very professional. When you decide to make a movie, you have to reflect all the depth of human nature, personal desires and artistic reasons in the movie. These are the most important factors for success. This is very professional, all the preparations: how to make clothes, makeup, hairstyle, shoes, how she acts, how she walks, do you know? It's not just these. When you are really involved in a movie, you won’t be wondering why you want to do this and how to do it. Even though there are many difficult scenes in the movie, because Michael Haneke is such a great director, I think it’s a great one. The director must not only be enthusiastic, but also know how to do it, knowing how to become reality when it is not true. This is how to make a movie and how to get close to the mysterious reality. Consider a lot of work that has to be solved to help you get out of trouble. For example, when I don’t feel the passion for acting, I’m still acting. That's it.
CC: You can accurately play the piano music you need in the movie. Are you a pianist?
IH: I am not a pianist. I just learned the piano like all the little girls in France. I was bored after studying for 12 years, so I stopped. Because Michael wanted the two pianists to be as real as possible, we worked very hard. The piano cannot be understood only from the technical level. Learning the music in the film is a way to approach the soul of the film. Because there are mature and perfect sound souls of Schubert and Bach. Through the understanding of these classical music, it helps us truly and thoroughly understand the core of the movie.
CC: One of the wonderful things in this movie is that you invite Annie Girardot to play your mother. She has rarely made movies recently. How do you convince her?
IH: Yes, she rarely shoots recently. I once played her daughter in a movie called "Docteur Françoise Gailland". The movie got a good box office in the 70s. She played a mother with cancer, and I played her daughter. Since then, I haven't worked with her again. She acted very well, I don’t think she has worked with Michael Haneke before, but she chose this film instead. You know, she is just an actress, she won't ask so many questions, she just has to act.
CC: She played a terrible mother, she was a monster, but very sympathetic.
IH: This is where Michael Haneke is great. In every character, good and evil exist at the same time. He felt that such a role could arouse more pity. But in fact, the image of the mother in the script is closer to the monster in the comics hurting her daughter. But Annie's performance made it more complicated. The audience can't tell who is the victim and who is the villain. The audience can't see who controls whom-but this is exactly what the movie is about. Control and lose control, rule and be ruled. Usually the mother is the master, but I am not sure, sometimes the daughter seems to be in control.
CC: You are implying that shooting will make the relationship between the characters look more tense, do you work like this?
IH: No, I think the scenes written in the script are more intense. Maybe because Annie is too fragile, I can't beat her too badly! This paragraph in the script is very intense. We need to make some adjustments... When you see a daughter hitting her mother, even if it is not very serious. It's really hard. In the end, violence cannot only occur on the surface, but must have inner feelings. This is what Michael Haneke wants to pursue-every scene can see violence in the spirit. He said that because such intimacy is sometimes unbearable, violence cannot be expressed as anger on the surface.
There was a scene where I wanted to press her down with myself. The description in the script seemed to resemble mother-daughter incest. But when we started filming this scene, it was strange that the unbelievable chaos and the creepy things in it disappeared. ——Maybe a motivation was revealed through shooting. It's a bit like a little girl wants to go back to her mother's belly. This is very subtle, and it cannot be said that a daughter has not made love with her mother. This is even more disturbing, because it touches something deeper.
CC: Erica has to pay some strange price to become an adult-the way she matures is incredible.
IH: In a way, you are right. At the end of the movie you can only see her walking—how do you say, it’s staggering? This is not true, she is a very vulnerable adult. This was also the first time she understood what hurt was. She was hurt, but... she couldn't even commit suicide. In any good, romantic tragedy, the protagonist should die. But Michael Haneke didn't want her to die like a tragic hero. The movie just imitated the tragedy model. At least, she suffered the first blow in her life and survived. She endured and saw the pain. Maybe she liked it. Who knows? I hope so.
CC: This scene is aimed at your face from beginning to end, recording the results that really happened to you. How did you prepare?
IH: As an actress, there is no other camera in the world facing you. Listening to the most beautiful music with you is a better gift! Plus I need to fly to see my children, so we only have 5 minutes to do this. This is real! It is interesting to work with director Michael Haneke... well, the lens usually has several fixed positions, far, middle, and close shots. The music is actually there like a dream, because usually you can't listen to music, but I can really hear music. I think my face shows how you feel when you are listening to music, but the lines can't do it-this is the difference between music and language, because language restricts lines. Music is unlimited. Movies are a good medium of expression, because you have a face in the lens to express what you want, only sound and images.
Michael Haneke made this more interesting, when we filmed me while listening to music-this was the key moment when she fell in love, she fell in love with him just like the music she also loved. So, so instinctively, I will show more emotions-let you see that she has fallen in love. But Michael is so funny because he can read my expression. When I fell in love, he kept saying, "She was angry for falling in love". Therefore, you have two plausible feelings. On the one hand, she is falling in love, and on the other hand, she is nervous about falling in love. So he said that there are two opposite feelings on my face at the same time, which is very interesting, you know?
CC: These times usually need to be firm, but you are very relaxed. Is "acting" easy for you?
IH: As an actress making movies, all the time is rest for me. I don't have any difficulty in making movies, otherwise I won't be able to do it, because I am not a sadist, you know? Sitting in a chair listening to music is less tiring (just less effort) than taking a rape scene, because the latter requires more effort. But in general, I don't need to put effort into it, which is normal.
CC: You have been an actress for a long time, from when you were very young?
IH: Young or too young?
CC: Almost.
IH: I don't know. This question is difficult to answer because you should remember when this situation started. I don't know if you reminded yourself that you want to be an actor. This eventually becomes a social function. You become an actor and make a living from it, but when you first started, you might not think so much. You just thought about how to survive, or how to find a way of survival.
I think the talent of an actor is manifested in the ability to deal with things that are not encountered in real life, a talent that is rarely used. Instead of saying: "I want to be an actor", it is better to say, "I can't do other things, so I can only try to be an actor."
CC: You choose to pass formal training.
IH: Yes, it is unrealistic to want to become an actress without the ability like this. You should learn more. So I went to the drama school in Paris.
CC: What prompted you to learn and what did you think at the time?
IH: Not thinking about anything... When you need to learn something but you are not sure that you will be able to learn it, you have to go to school.
CC: Did you want to make a movie or act on stage?
IH: I don't think there is a clear difference between the two. I hope I can do well. I make movies very quickly, I have made some TV shows, and then I have also been on stage. I never thought about being a drama actor or just a movie actor. Of course, for the next 10 years, I was only making movies, then occasionally acting in some dramas, and then I was a movie actor for a longer time.
CC: We all remember that you once performed Schiller's "Mary Stuart" in the "Nature Theater". Isn't it a great experience?
IH: It was an extraordinary experience. I was invited to play a queen of France in the Nature Theater. I am proud of it. Drama is always a rare experience. For me, making a movie is like going on vacation, a nice walk. But the drama is more like mountain climbing. You never know when you fall into the valley or reach the top. Still in English. Now, maybe I will have less difficulty in doing it. All classical languages, it is not my mother tongue-but it is beautiful.
CC: You also did a long-term tour for Euripides' Medea. Those places have expanded your performance to an extraordinary space...
IH: But you didn't go to Greece!
CC: It's been a long time. What drove you to do it?
IH: This is just a normal period of time for the French government-funded theater company project. Premiere at the Avigny Festival, then tour in Paris. When you perform in a public theater in France, you have to leave the first stop to Paris, and then start touring everywhere. This is a very ordinary cycle. I like this. Before acting, I said that I hope to finish it in as short a time as possible, but once you do this, it's kind of paradoxical fun. Only on this night, there was no second, there was such a miraculous appearance, I can't wait for it to reappear again and again for five minutes. It is like drugs.
Being able to go to different stages at once is quite enjoyable and a great enjoyment. For quite a long time, I likened movies to music. I think filming is like the rhythm in music in many places. This is why "Piano Teacher" is a great movie because it shows the similarities between them. But drama, I think it is more like sculpture. This is a shape, your shape. There is a funny image in my mind. You can extend it, shorten it.
First, we performed on the stage in Avignon, then we went to smaller places, and then larger ones. You have to change the volume, louder or lighter. In this way, you have to be consistent with the space like a sculpture.
CC: When I heard that you were playing Medea, I thought this was not the first time you played the role of murdering a child. What drove you to choose these flawed female characters?
IH: First of all, it is the simplest truth. There is no reason to create a movie or drama for a very mediocre woman. The Greeks have long realized that portraying an unusual character is more interesting than portraying an ordinary person-and this is the purpose of movies and dramas. I like to play unusual roles and make them as common as possible, because we all know that tragedies and anomalies are often hidden in normality. This is the reason why I like this kind of role-to reflect conflict in the performance, try to understand how good and evil coexist.
In the field of drama, the situation has improved in a complex way. Once upon a time you could only act as a good person or a bad person. It cannot be mixed. Now the characters have become more vague, and it is very interesting to observe how good and evil coexist in one character. I think the current movies are more trying to explain the relationship between individuals and society—in the past, they paid more attention to individuals—good individuals and bad individuals. But some people, like Claude Chablow, try to establish a connection between the society in which we live and the social factors that make certain people become demons. This is a more political conscience, which is now reflected in movies. Filmmaking is still entertainment, but it is also a way of trying to understand how the outside world works. This is a good sign for me, because it is a way to express these vague and complicated characters.
CC: Do you agree with the secular definition of evil or good, or these are not important?
IH: This is important because... this question is too difficult for me, I am not a philosopher...
CC: Just talk about the roles played in these films...
IH: That's not the case: every time before I act, I would like to explore it from a philosophical point of view and consider whether I need to work hard to forgive the bad guys. But, instinctively... I try not to sympathize with the role I want to play, I just try to feel them and try to understand them. Some videos are just for asking questions, not for finding answers to the problems. I think that in this kind of film, I do just that. Because this kind of film is just to show the problem and let everyone discuss it. Each audience can find their own answers according to their own ideas.
CC: How did you find these in the script?
IH: The first page and the last page! I can't say it, no. This is a difficult question. It depends on who gave it to me, whether it was someone I know. If I made a movie from Michael Haneke, I knew he would write surprisingly good scripts. But if I receive the script from an unknown man, it will be difficult to decide whether to make it or not, because this is a very sharp movie. I need a reliable assistant to do it.
CC: But there must be some things you want to do, and those things you don't want to do?
IH: Oh yes! I definitely don't want to make bad movies with bad directors. It's easy to recognize, and then I just avoid them. For example, you just asked if there are any movies or characters that are difficult to make. For a great director, there are no characters or movies that are difficult to make. If a good character falls into the hands of a bad director, it becomes a nightmare. How do you deal with a bad director? This is impossible. The problem is to make the right choice, because once a decision is made, it is very difficult...I don't think I have encountered this situation, I think I am very lucky.
CC: Among directors, you and Claude Chabrol have collaborated the most times. I think you have made 6 films in total. What kind of relationship is this?
IH: It's a very simple relationship that makes my role better or worse. He is the real leader. I think this is why we can work together for a long time. I like the way he gives the actors absolute freedom when filming. Go with the flow.
Extreme freedom is a very interesting cooperation, far more than Michael Haneke would give, for example, he used an extreme restriction. But you will not see restrictions in his movies. When I talk about this extreme freedom, what I mean is that I can make the character laugh or cry at will without making any difference to Claude Chabrol. However, in the end, this movie will become his movie again. There is no limit...control. This is strange.
CC: Because he did tricks in post-production?
IH: Oh no. He didn't add anything in the later period. He is a great film writer because the way he makes movies is like a line. He will draw a very simple route first, and during the eight days of post-production, he will not cut out any extra shots. This is very pure and precise. Maybe because of this precision, there will be no trouble...I don't know how to explain it to make you understand. In "Love and Poison Chocolate", he concluded that there is a very good analogy about his directing way: the way I weave the net is the way he directs.
A great movie is always the expression of the director's own will. A great director always says to think about movies through his work, or a fictional story. This will always affect how to be a director, how to be a film and how to be an audience. In a sense, it's all the same problem.
When working as a piano teacher, Michael Hanni talked about control and loss of control, and in my opinion, the women he photographed are largely consistent with the director's situation. This is a woman controlling her desires, exactly as a director is controlling his desires and the desires of the audience. In the movie, women are not the passive body of desire, but actively control her desire needs. This is why as a movie-I don't even talk about the story-and it is interesting in itself, because he has changed the position of female characters in society in the movie. In my opinion, the reason why I can navigate the sexual scenes relatively easily is because I do not establish that male desires are passive objects under normal conditions. I am a person who can control male desires. Therefore, under the change of concern, I feel that I am completely protected.
CC: Does working with Chablow make you feel that a wife has independence that has nothing to do with her husband?
IH: Yes. He is a director who often expresses women. This is a new way of portraying women, trying to break away from the male world. They are the survivors who have escaped male domination.
CC: Do you think this is why many people misunderstand Michael Cimino's "Gate of Heaven", people don't understand Ella Watson well. She fell into the embrace of the beloved man, instead of going to the United States and Japan together, is she a romantic character?
IH: Yes, I don't think people fully understand this movie. It's about domination, but it's about American domination in general, which is why the movie was denied and caused so much anger. The response in England has been much better. The film showed what I was trying to describe, but it later extended to a broader meaning.
Like all classic movies, this movie also wants to describe an unexpected ambiguous relationship between a woman and two men. The structure of the film itself is also unexpected-it reproduces the general picture of the West, but it is completely opposed to the West and opposed to the West. This is exactly what the film is against. But you also have to be prepared to pay the price for such opposition.
CC: Did you think about what was going to happen when you made this movie?
IH: I am too busy to think about anything. I want to learn how to ride a horse, how to skate, how to shoot with a gun, how to speak fluent English-so that there is no room for reflection. It is a great honor for me to be there. When Michael Cimino called me, the deer hunter had a great success. A few months later, he won all the awards.
He encountered a lot of difficulties in inviting me to act. The Americans were very opposed to me and didn't want me to make a movie. They don't understand. When they are there at three o'clock in the afternoon, I am here at night. They called me every night to check my English level, check my poor English... Finally, the director secretly let me join. It's almost like a mystery.
CC: Will you go to the United States to make more films? Some people don’t know that you and Hal Hartley happily finished "Amateur"...
IH: I will go to any place to make a good movie. I don't care if they are American, Chinese or African. For an actress, I am a European actress. My dream is to go to the East instead of the West. We found a huge surprise from the East, from the film photography technology in Asia.
CC: Usually people say that for actresses, as they get older, the roles they can play will "wither". Do you think this situation will change? For actresses of a certain age, how many suitable roles can be played, and whether the roles that can be played will vary with age?
IH: I never thought this would be a problem. I don't know what the situation is like in the United States, but I don't think... I think this is a male view of this issue. In addition, because the theme of film content has been changing, the film industry has been different from the past. I don’t think people go to the cinema just to see young actors.
First question: Hal Hartley said that he wrote Isabelle specifically for you. Do you think this role is a manifestation of yourself?
IH: I was very moved when I received the script. It's like HAL has known me for a lifetime. This is a very strange feeling, because it is more like from a French director, but from an American director... He added some humorous methods that are very familiar to me. Of course, it is also because a French actress in an American movie can give me more... I don't know if it gave me more freedom, but it made me clearly aware of my own identity. When performing abroad, it is difficult to be yourself. How do you become who you are, instead of imitating a French girl. I am who i am. You know, I am not a French girl in a comic. In "The Amateur", I feel like in Godard's movie. This is a very good feeling.
I’m not very surprised. Although this is an American movie, I’ve already watched "Trust". It has a European rhythm. The actors have more time to talk about their lines. The director has some time between the lines. The audience has plenty of room for imagination. The silence speaks. Sometimes when the audience is watching a movie, you have to give them some breathing time, that is, the actors don’t have to say lines all the time-this is not a five-hour dull movie. Just for the audience to think for themselves.
Second question: Do you want to have your own production company or are you just happy to be an actress waiting for the script?
IH: When you are an actress, you need to be a warrior and a princess at the same time. You need to fight and you can only wait. I like them all and I do them all. I will participate in the pre-production of some projects. I am not a businessman, an actor is an actor, you will not do other things. Making a choice is the beginning of truly embarking on this path.
CC: Do you like to participate in post-production?
IH: Yes, but it is subtle. I don't go into the editing room and say, "Cut off this paragraph" and "Leave that paragraph."
The third question: Will playing some perverted movies put pressure on your mind?
IH: This is a good question. I hope not... Diderot once wrote a great book about the contradictions of actors. This is me, this is not me.
Fourth question: What do you think of working with Jean-Luc Godard?
IH: [Stopping... Laughing] I don’t think working with Godard, your experience...making movies with Godard-I have made two of them, which means I have spent at least with him It's been two years-it's more like an incomparable experience. Watching Godard make a movie with him is a great gift for an actress. Whenever I say you can’t work with him, I mean that you don’t have any shortcuts whenever you interpret a character. To make a movie with him is to start from scratch---you feel powerless, which is a very peculiar feeling.
Whenever he started shooting, his way was always very peculiar and personal. The reason is very simple: there is never any improvisation in his dictionary. I think, in the end, he makes everyone think in his own way. This is real!
He always shuts down the feeling at the end of his thoughts. He stopped that feeling; it was strange. You can’t say: I’m creating a Godard or I’m playing a prostitute, because Godard surpasses all your understanding of general roles. This is also the reason for his greatness-the source is beyond a great director but a great film philosopher!
CC: How did you prepare for the Godard movie, if it is such a mechanical one?
IH: In "The Passion", I play the role of a female worker who needs to go to work in the factory every morning. He wanted me to really feel it-I went to shifts.
CC: Is this okay?
IH: This is interesting.
CC: Does this help?
IH: I don't know, this is not the point. Maybe it's no use. He needs us to get some experience.
CC: What are the characteristics of the book followed in this movie?
IH: Oh, everyone knows this is Elfriede Jelinek's autobiography, this is her life, this is the relationship between her and her mother. She might become a composer before she became a writer, but she became a writer because writing is like composing to her. When we started shooting, her mother had just passed away two weeks ago, which was a strange coincidence. She also wrote other books, but everyone knows that this one is autobiographical. There was a very intense movement in Austria in the 1970s. Everything has been changed. I watched an interview and she said she was really involved in it.
Question 5: Do you want to work with Lars von Trier?
IH: Yes, if there is a chance. Yes.
Question 6: Will you take over the role of Björk in "Dancer in the Dark"?
IH: Not just her, I will too.
Question 7: At the Cannes awards ceremony this year, what did you write on your arms and shoulders?
IH: This line is saying, "God might want to thank Bach, because he proved the existence of God with music." This is a beautiful line, isn't it?
Question 8: Will you go back to the "Nature Theater" again?
IH: I will if there is a need!
The ninth question: How important is it to work with real actors and directors?
IH: Oh, you are not performing alone. The performance is a dialogue. There is an in-depth dialogue and an accurate and good response is required. I think people’s talents can inspire each other, and it’s beneficial to work with good actors. If you two are not in time—you want to create a moment of silence and the other party rushes into lines—that’s tiring. Actors may not be as important as directors, because bad performances can be corrected.
In "Break Up", we have such a precise collaboration with Christian Vincent, which is quite delicate work. It is easy for people to fall into the misunderstanding of poor imitation in performance, after all, there is only a thin line between reality and imitation. During the filming, we thought we acted quite real, but Christian Vincent made us realize that our anger and laughter are more imitating. The director should make the actors aware of this and help them be realistic.
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